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Talkin' To Mary


Over at BeerMary's blog, I started to comment on a post of hers. However, her software limits comments to 2500 characters, and I'm barely warmed up by then. :-) So I had to bring it over here.

Her original post, and the comments which led to this, are here. Go read them and come back.

OK, I knew you wouldn't, so here's the Reader's Digest Condensed Version:

She has watched the movie "Bridges of Madison County" for the eleventeenth time. Mary talks about the woman played by Meryl Streep, and how nobody really sees who she is until the Clint Eastwood dude stares into her soul with his Magic X-Ray Luuurve Goggles (my words here, not hers - she's a lot less cynical than I am. Further disclaimer, I've never seen the movie. Can you spell "chick flick"? I knew you could. But hey, you wanna talk Judge Dredd, I'm all over that.)

She then mentions how for a few fleeting moments in her life, she had somebody that truly "saw" her, but no longer, and wishes that she, and everybody else, had somebody like that.

I replied that this soul revelation was like a tango, it takes two.

She replied to my reply saying that I had a good point.

Never willing to leave well enough alone, I blathered on, which led to this....

I didn't (and don't) mean anything I say as criticism, and I certainly don't know anyone likely to read this well enough to be their shrink, or even offer them good advice.

Like I'd let that stop me...

In my opinion, (and though I'm sometimes wrong, though never uncertain :-) if you don't have someone in your life that loves and cares about you, the primary responsibility for that state lies with you.

That may sound harsh, and unforgiving. Sorry 'bout that. But until such time as you accept responsibility for your aloneness (solocity? I love to make up words :-) you have no control over it. You remain subjugated to Fate, waiting for that magic person to come riding in on a Hollywood white horse to rescue you from your solitude. Maybe Mr. X-Ray Eyes will come charging in, maybe not. I'm guessing in most cases he will not.

If you've had loving relationships, and none of them have lasted, then the safest thing to admit to yourself is that all those loved ones could not have been wrong. If you insist that they all were, then the question becomes what is it about you that causes you to pick out such an uninterrupted string of losers?

Short answer - your subconscious will never fail you. It will unerringly lead you to just as much happiness in life as you truly believe you deserve. If you've ever wondered why people stay in desperately unhappy, or even abusive relationships, (or stay relationshipless) that is ultimately the reason - because they feel that they are worthy of nothing better.

How can people come to such a self-destructive self-evaluation? Because poor self-esteem is pandemic in our cullture, for many reasons.

The media carries much responsibilty. We are bombarded by images of people that are always smarter, richer, prettier, more eloquent, more noble, athletic, funny, whatever, than we could ever hope to be. We compare ourselves and our lives to the fantasies created by the scriptwriters, and then wonder why our lives seem wanting, pale ghosts of these set-piece fictions, fictions so impossibly unreal even the highly paid folks that act them out for us are not able to recreate them in their personal lives. We watch movies like Sleepless in Seattle, or Bridges of Madison County, and think, like some fool buying lottery tickets, that someday lightning will strike us, too. If only...

Our culture also leads us to have unrealistic expectations about our romantic relationships. AKA The Happily Ever After Syndrome. It leads us to think that there is something "wrong" with the relationship, or our partner, or ourselves, at the first signs of strife, boredom or worse, attraction to another human being.

Our religious indoctrination plays an even greater role. We are told from our infancy that we are corrupt sinners, steeped in Original Sin, unworthy, doomed, and helpless through any act of our own of achieving salvation. We are taught that it is only by a gift of grace from an all-powerful deity that we can be be saved from an eternal punishment a gift that is, unlike the unconditional love a true loving parent feels for a child, only bestowed upon us if we follow the rules, rules that few humans can follow without fail. Guilt, shame, and feelings of unworthiness and inadequacy assault us very nearly from the day we learn to understand our language.

It's a freakin' dogdam miracle that any of us find a modicum of happiness in this world.


 
Re: Talkin' To Mary

I was with you until your next to last paragraph, when the religious rant started. I agree that we're each individually responsible to nurture the relationships that we have, because "love at first sight" is a fiction (and perhaps the one of the worst fictions ever foisted upon the world).

I like the blutz you've created: solocity, it sounds right (even both pronunciations, suh-lossity and solo-city, have rich associations).

But to say that religion is a greater influence on loneliness than poor self-esteem is plain wrong. Christianity (the religion I know best) is at its core about relationships, forgiveness, and unconditional love. The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus is one who has forever reached out to each individual, gently calling and saying, "Ultimate relational fulfillment lies in Me alone. Earthly relationships are a pale imitation of my love for you."

That's a message of hope, because when I'm hurt here by another's carelessness or outright spurning, I realize that God alone is faithful. Pain is sufferable when the ultimate reward is so great. That's not defeatism, but Christian hope - which is never disappointed.

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Xians & Self-Esteem

Somebuddy writes:

I like the blutz you've created: solocity, it sounds right (even both pronunciations, suh-lossity and solo-city, have rich associations).

Thanks. In my head, I hear it as rhyming with "velocity" ans a long O sound in the first syllable. Your Pronunciation May Vary. :-)

But to say that religion is a greater influence on loneliness than poor self-esteem is plain wrong.

Perhaps my writing was unclear. I intended to point out that religion is a major contributor to poor self-esteem, not loneliness. It is the poor self-esteem that makes relationships difficult, and thus, indirectly, contributes to loneliness.

Christianity (the religion I know best) is at its core about relationships, forgiveness, and unconditional love.

Sorry, but I disagree. It seems to me you confuse the remedy with the disease. At it's core, Xianity is about original Sin. Without that, there is no need for forgiveness. If we're not inherently bad, what is there to be forgiven for?

And the love of the Xian god is anything but unconditional, or how do we arrive at eternal damnation?

I've preached about this before, in my post titled As The Twig Is Bent. Forgive me for pointing it out if you've already seen it.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus is one who has forever reached out to each individual,...

I think you clearly wax lyrical here, as empirical evidence shows that the vast majority of the current global population is not reached by that God, leaving aside all those that lived and died before the Xian religion was invented. Should you disagree with that, please explain to me how the Xian god reached out to say, Pericles, Tamerlane, and any Pre-Columbian Meso-American, and how well he's getting to some kid living in Medina.

...gently calling and saying, "Ultimate relational fulfillment lies in Me alone. Earthly relationships are a pale imitation of my love for you."

(As an aside, I'd like to know which Scripture you base that last statement on, if you are Xian and use the Bible as a foundation of your reasoning.)

Then why try, if they be doomed to, if not failure, some pale imitation of a true relationship? Hie thee off to a nunnery (or a monastery, if that applies) and commune with the spirit. I disagree with this statement on so many levels it is difficult to know where to begin. How about this. as a starter - the idealized love of God for man is an imaginary extrapolation of the only true tangible love - that which exists in this world between living creatures. As one man wrote that peace was an imaginary state whose existence we can deduce form the fact that there have been intervals between wars, so, I think, love of god for man is imagined by the fact that we love one another.

In our anthromorphic attempt to remake the Creator in our own image, we attribute to him human qualities, only to a greater than human degree, in exactly the same manner that the Greco-Roman pantheon consisted of superhero deities - gods with human outlooks and emotions, just with comic book character special powers.

Extra Credit Essay Question - argue, without resorting to faith-based reasoning, the underlyin assumption of nearly all religions, that the universe was created by a benevolent god, and not one that has ill-intentions, or is completely indifferent. One key point to address, among others, will be mortality.

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Re: Talkin' To Mary

I can't read this totally because I'm at work and am going to a meeting in 3 minutes. But I'd just like to say this:

Hey, I never said it WASN'T my fault. Every man I've been with wanted me to be someone else, but they weren't that way in the beginning... either that's my fault for not having a doctorate in psychology and being able to predict it, or it's my fault for not being good enough.

OK, ok, it's my fault. Does that mean I can't bitch about it?

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Bitch Away...

..it won't bother me. Please allow me to point out that I was talking about things that are part and parcel to our culture, rather than any particular individual's situation or failings. To the extent that the shoe fits, and you wanna wear it, get down wid yer bad self.

I could just as easily argue that in your case, as that of many other folks, you simply remain a diamond unmined, much to the detriment of all the lost and unhappy males out there, OK? :-)

I could bolster this argument by pointing out that CG once, about your age, felt just about the same way you do. (she's about to turn 39) Then she met me. ;-) How on fucking earth all the males of this planet let her run around loose for so long is beyond me, but I'm glad they did. :-) (I tell her this about once a week)

It makes me ashamed of my gender, to speak verily. :-)

The key point, I think, is that she was still out there swinging away, so to speak, meeting folks, dating, kissing the toads, looking for the prince, getting hurt, getting knocked down, and getting back up again.

She took responsibility for her "solocity" and worked hard to overcome it.

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Re: Re: Talkin' To Mary

BeerMary, let me tell you, I know how you feel about men always seeming to want you to be someone else later on in the relationship. But you have to look at it like this: Who were you in the beginning? People tend to be nicer, or more attentive, or simply less interested in standing up for their needs and beliefs in the very beginning of the "getting to know each other" stage of the relationship. Once the newness of another person wears off, we all relax and become more like the person we really are.
I used to say it was entirely my fault too, but now I realize that it's not really. It's everyone's fault. The other party in the relationship is doing it too. Just like you are relaxing, so is he/she. We all do it. So I would say that from now on, instead of starting out like this, just relax from the beginning, try to be more like you are around your best friend everyday. Don't pretend to be more or less than what you really are in the beginning. Be you. It's harder than it sounds believe me. I have been trying to do this for a while.
My second piece of advice is something that has been hard for me also. NEVER keep up a relationship after you start to think maybe it’s not right. I have always experienced that from the moment I start to realize that there are things about that person that I don't like, I start to think that maybe I will learn to live with it. That's not ultimately the case. In reality, what I am thinking is "Maybe they'll change." They won't, they shouldn't have to, just like you shouldn't have to change the things about you that they don't like.
Ugh...I'm ranting. I'm sorry.
Oh and Marcus, this is the first time I have been to your site. I love it. I will be back.

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HiJinx! (that was fun to say)

I can kinda see your point. But you'd have to know me to realize I'm entirely incapable of pretense. I don't put my best face forward. That is why people only like me once they've gotten to know me. I hear all the time, "I didn't know what to make of you at first."

If I had the attention span to "put my best face forward" I would be racking up more marriage proposals than I know what to do with, even if I'm not "pretty" by society's definition of the term.

Women often marry a man thinking she'll change him. What is less publicized is that men do the exact same thing. NOT ALL OF THEM thank God, not even the majority of them.

Working in EMS and in the ER, I dated the same kind of men. Doctors, police, fire, paramedics. These men are attracted to confident, smart, powerful women. These men also become uncomfortable if that woman doesn't magically morph into June Cleaver at their convenience. It's not their fault. They are caught between two cultures, the culture that teaches them to be a 90's guy and want a woman who accomplishes things, and the traditional firemen, dr., and cop wives that sit at home and bake cookies, look hot, and smile sweetly while listening to their manfolk "talk shop".

I TOTALLY agree with you about bailing if you know it's not right. I've "beaten a dead horse" enough times to know all I did was increase my own hurt. That is 100 percent my fault. But it's also in my nature to want to "fix" everything. Makes me a good RN. And in my personal life it makes me my own worst enemy.

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Welcome to the Sandbox

Good to see you here, Jinx. Hope you enjoy the site, have fun, and I hope you become a regular. I'm not as mean as it might seem when I get wound up. :-)

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