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GodSmackDown!


Any of you that read macker's site know that he and I and emdot and Beermary will every now and then, get into a four way battle royal over matters theological. Macker, of course, is on the side of the angels. I carry the flag for the Dark Side. Marya (Magdelene) and Mary kinda sorta referee, but will toss a rabbit punch in the kidneys at one or the other of us on behalf of the Buddhists and the whatever it is Mary calls herself these days. :-)

Anyway, one of the more recent gangfights (see the comments) was on the subject of salvation. Specifically, does it exist for those that do not believe in Jesus?

The bell dinged to start the match, and macker charged out and swung a dogma at me, busting me in the chops with the contention that Jesus was the only way to get to heaven. I shook it off, and pile-drove him headfirst through the canvas with the following dilemma: You (meaning Xians) would have us (meaning the agnostic humanists, or Deists, or whatever the hell it is that I am) believe six impossible things before breakfast, to wit:

  1. God (capital G Xian god) is a loving and just deity.

  2. Salvation (first typed just then a "slavation," pehaps a Freudian slip :-) is only possible through faith in him as represented by his earthly avatar, Jesus.

(1) implies that salvation is an equal opportunity exercise - all souls should be able to find it. Yet very clearly, most people on the planet grow up believing what their parents do, and there are many more non-Xians in the world than there are Xians. Seems that the Devil gets a home court advantage, as all those twigs get bent to grow into heathen trees.

Or perhaps you'd like to argue that Bobby White, the son of Methodist minister in Delaware has exactly the same opportunity to find Jesus as Abdul Mohammed Akbar, the seven year old son of a Saudi shopkeeper living in Medina, where Xians are not even allowed to travel?

For (1) to be true, then there must be some sort of Plan B for all those poor souls that don't get a fair chance as salvation, so then (2) must not be true. Yet both of these contradictory axioms must be held to be true by every flavor of Xian I've ever come across.

Macker responded with the last and most common argument Xians use when faced with such a paradox, a profession of faith that God could work all this stuff out, (I'm summarizing ruthlessly here) while some dude named John, heretofor an lurker to the rumble, just called me a dead horse that they should stop beating. Clearly I am on of the Unrepentant Fallen. The match was called on account of exhaustion on both our parts, I think, after 26 comments in the thread.

But macker is not the only Xian blogger I read. Donald Sensing of One Hand Clapping wears a few hats. One of them is as a Methodist minister. He is in fact the pastor of his church. I don't know if he was reading our tussle, most likely not, but an essay he just wrote, "Is Heaven A Private Club?" addresses this very topic, and does a damn good job.

From his essay: 'Heaven is not a private club for anyone or any group. Heaven falls under the sole sovereignty of a holy and gracious God. Only God can establish the conditions by which human beings enjoy eternal life in his presence. All knowledge human beings have about God is limited, partial, and fragmentary, so we must approach questions about salvation and eternity with deep humility. If the fullness of God is like a vast ocean, at best we can get our toes wet. Any person or faith who claims certainty about the whole of God's providence is, frankly, inexcusably arrogant. At the minimum, we must admit that not only is God's grace greater than we imagine, it is greater than we can imagine. The gates of heaven will almost certainly open wider than we think."

He solves the dilemma, unsolvable as I stated it, by disallowing one of the premises. With some deft theological judo, he says that while Jesus is the means by which salvation is made possible, direct belief in him may not be required. He backs this up with scriptural citation, (though admitting other scripture may contradict his reading) and in the process, brings up the idea that the moment of death may not be the last point at which salvation is possible. This is a bonus helps reconcile the contradictory ideas of Eternal Damnation and Infinite Mercy.

Now go read the whole thing.

To the extent that Rev. Sensing's statements here have come to represent mainstream Xian belief, it is certainly a welcome, maturing, evolution of the faith. I would find it hard to believe, though, that there could be much acceptance of his reading of the Scripture that allows salvation after death. Unfortunately, however, it seems to me that is what it would take to solve the problem of young Abdul, taught from the cradle to actively hate all non-Muslims. While the gates of heaven may open wider than we think, it his hard to imagine a God that could accept both Abdul's faith and that of the Rev. Sensing as equally valid manifestations of the divine plan for man.


 
Bravo, darling

Well put. I especially like this quote from the Methodist minister's blog:

"We must approach questions about salvation and eternity with deep humility."

I've said this so many times that I'm sick of hearing myself: God knows if you are following religion to honor Him, or if you're doing it so you can feel "right" and "superior." That is why some of the arrogant, power-drunk Catholic priests are going straight to hell along with Osama Bin Laden. God knows that some people hide behind the power of religion for selfish, not selfless purposes.

Even if you don't commit evil in the name of God (bombing innocents or molesting children), there are plenty of people who do good works and live a pious life strictly for the attention they get. These are the people who will be the first to tell you what God thinks, and who is and is not going to heaven.

Their arrogance knows no bounds!

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a slightly better philosophy, but even that leads to a judgmental attitude that doesn't help eradicate sin in others, but helps boost the delusions of superiority held by the Xian.

Then, there are people who think they ARE God. But we'll leave surgeons out of this...

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