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God And NotGod


"Homo sum; humani nil a me alienum puto."

Publius Terence Afer - "Terence" - Roman playwright It's hard to translate that proverb accurately. The word Terence used, "alienum," can be translated in various ways, with varying nuances. It is the most difficult word in the phrase to accurately translate. Accordingly, there are many variant translations of what, in Latin, was a simple sentence.

"I am human, therefore everything human is of interest to me."

"I am human, and nothing human is alien to me."

"I am a man, so nothing of man is foreign to me."

and so on...

So, we might well take into consideration the advice of another famous Roman writer, Horace, when he says: "Nec verbum verbo curabis reddere fidus interpres"

"As a true translator you will take care not to translate word for word"

"Alienum" could fairly be rendered as "alien," "foreigner" (which is what Romans meant by "alien", not little green men) or "stranger," as in someone from another land.

The word "homo" also lends itself to a choice - do we translate it as "man," or as "human"? In English, the words have slightly different flavors.

So, the phrase comes to mean, "I am a man/human, so nothing of men/humans is alien/strange/foreign to me" or perhaps "nothing men/humans do is alien/strange/foreign to me"

It seems to me that the thought is best captured, at least in English, by expressing the thought in the positve sense, saying, "I am human, so all humans are one with me."

In this, it seems to presage Donne's Meditation XVII: "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main."

Translation issues aside, what does this statement truly mean?

All of humanity is united in both our history and our potential. In every man or woman, there is bravery and cowardice, jealousy and generosity, nobility and baseness. There is no act any human has ever performed that is not in our range of potential. There is no depravity or cruelty that each of us, given the required combination of circumstance, nativity and nurture, might not perform, (witness the tragic environment of those children born in the West Bank, trained from infancy to hate Jews and aspire to become human explosive delivery agents) nor no heroism or achievement we might perform under other combinations, (witness the actions of the passengers of Flight 93, who died preventing a larger tragedy)

This is a thought that should both terrify and inspire us.

The Xians acknowledge this, at least subconsciously, when they mutter the phrase, "There but for the Grace of God..." They have little option other than to consider it this way, as according to their holy book, (Ephesians, 2:8-9) their salvation is a gift, and one not given to all, or even most, but to a fortunate few, at least based on the latest estimates of Xianity as a proportion of the world's religious.

How the all-merciful Xian god could condemn a Palestinian child, bred and bent to disdain the Xian faith, to eternal damnation, for not having the faith he did not see fit to give him, I will leave for one of their scholars to explain - I confess I'm not smart enough to resolve that contradiction.

In their exclusivity, they mirror their dread foes, the Islamic world, and, in their common ancestral monotheistic doctrine, display the fact that they resemble each other much more than they differ. It is a family resemblance that embarrasses them both, though I'm not sure which one more.

The Islamicists are hell-bent on making the world in their image of morality. Despite the emergence of a kinder, gentler form of Xianity in the last century, there are still some preachers that do too.

To me, though, even more tragic than the Believer's division of the world and it's peoples into the Saved and the Damned, is the internal conflicts this inevitably creates in the mind of the faithful, when that persons own natural thought processes are turned against them, and create guilt or shame. How so, you say?

According to the Bible, and my discussions with Xians like Macker, to even "think" about doing something evil is a sin.

I disgree. There is no "thoughtcrime." There can be no sin, no harm, without an observable behavior.

As an example:

I'm in the grocery store. I see a pretty nubile teenage girl. She's dressed in a revealing fashion. I, and every other healthy male that sees her, from puberty to the grave, am going to feel, if only for the briefest of instants, a twinge of sexual attraction to her.

That's human nature, my natural, healthy, libido, screaming at me. Everybody feels it, few will admit it. Any man that denies it is lying, if only to himself.

The Xians call this Original Sin. And is says right there in their handbook, the Bible, that I just sinned.

Colossians 3:5 "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry."

Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Now, I'm willing to at least entertain an argument that if I actually slept with a teenage girl, then that's a sin, even though I don't really believe that to be absolutely true in all cases. But, for me to consider it, think about it, be tempted by it? No. Not at all.

But, according to the Xians, it is entirely possible to be sitting alone, motionless, on some mountaintop, and commit a sin. This seems absolutely ridiculous to me, a standard of guilt or innocence that no human court (save maybe one of Orwell's) would support.

Perhaps we should leaven this anaysis with a quote fron C.S. Lewis: "He that but looketh on a plate of ham and eggs to lust after it, hath already committed breakfast with it in his heart."

We all have a Dark Side, an inner Bad Person that suggests that we do things we know to be wrong. Xianity requires that we cannot accept the Dark Side at what it is, a normal, integral part of us. Because this exists within us, the Xians conclude that we're sinners. Welcome to the concept of Original Sin. Doomed not by what we do, but by what we are.

Yet Jesus, the Sinless One, the Pure Lamb, was tempted, was he not? If we are to believe the Bible, I can think of two ocassions - the first when the Devil tempted him during the forty days in the desert, (Matthew 4:1-11) and the second, as he prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, and asked that this "cup" be removed from him. God sends him an angel to strengthen him; presumably, his resolve. (Luke 22:42,43) Surely this cannot be seen as anything other than Jesus being tempted to not undergo this painful death on the cross - that's the way it was always presented to me during my years of religious education. Clearly, then, merely to be tempted cannnot be a sin, unless we are to conclude that Jesus was a sinner.

Macker writes in his journal: marcus likes to chide me that the extended gaze I may make at a shapely figure is entirely natural, and he would be right. but the logical argument I seem perpetually unable to make is that is exactly the problem. it is the very reason adam and eve angered God: they let themselves commune with the creation to the exclusion of the Creator. they set, and fell for, their own self-made trap.

And a bit later: "anything that takes our focus off of knowing, serving and intimately interacting with a holy God is the trap of a carnal mind..."

And there, (viola! ici! eureka!) we have the point of divergence, the manner in which two reasonably sincere and intelligent men derive two completely different answers to an ethical question, by virtue of the underlying axioms taken for granted.

I can see the Creator as being in all of his manifestations. In the wonders of nature - the majesty of a galaxy, or the northern lights, the intricate structure of a dragonfly wing or even just a log rotting away in the forest. In the art of men - a Hendrix solo, and La Pieta. And even in human technology - an oil refinery, a motherboard, or a sniper rifle.

As Pirsig wrote in "Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintainence": "The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower."

Finally, the Buddha is there, too, in the things the Xians see as if not sinful, at least a carnal trap. You're just looking at another face(t) of the Creator when you see that pretty young girl, the smile that says "yes," and the face of your lover as the clouds and rain thunder down on her.

Those things aren't "carnal traps" that distract you from communing with God. They are all part of God - when you commune with them, you commune with the Creator.

This is not to say, that these things, although good, cannot be used to bad ends. Sex, rifles, PCs, motorcycles and yes, even religious faith can all be used to sin, despite the Buddha inside.

This very doctrine of pantheism, the belief that God resides in every part of his creation, was in fact abused. Though present and supressed several times in the history in the early church, in the thirteenth century pantheistic Xian believers took the doctrine to an extreme. They argued that since God was in everyone, that everyone was God, (as if a single brain cell is human being) therefore, since God could not sin, they were free to do as they wished. Hundreds were put to the Inquisition and burned at the stake.

This heresy was so severely prosecuted as it attacks the fundamental axiom of the Xian faith - the axiom to which macker subscribes and that I reject - the assumption that we are somehow flawed, that sin is passed from one generation to another via our basic human nature, that we have to be "saved" from anything, that our normal human desires and impulses are somehow "dirty" and need to be restrained and controlled, beyond those practical aspects of ethical socialization that allow us to live harmoniously in groups.

To think that some of creation is apart from the Creator, and therefore evil or sinful, requires that you accept the ancient artificial Platonic division.

The roots of the idea of the physical world as being "dirty" and somehow inferior to the "pure" idealized intangible world of thought arose from Plato's writings. This thinking lives on in Western thought to this very day; we drink it in unquestioned with our mother's milk.

The Xistian religion adopted this philosophical tradition when the first version of Xianity, that of the Jews, was Romanized in the third and fouth century, courtesy of theologians such as Augustine, giving us the lamentable condition in which we find ourselves today.

We all are conditioned to think of many of our thoughts as shameful, "dirty." Not only our actions, but our thoughts.

What does it do to our self-esteem, do you think, to be conditioned to believe that our instinctual desires are somehow wrong, and not the more sane view that those desires, while good, can sometimes tempt us to do wrong things? What burden of mental pain and suffering does this place on our collective spirits? How much of the drug abuse, mental illness, sexual dysfunction, (to include women who cannot mentally "flip the switch" and enjoy sex after marriage, after a childhood and adolescence of being told sex is "bad") and violence comes from the idea that we are all born flawed creatures, somehow imperfect creations of a perfect Creator?

I don't know how this could ever be measured in a scientific manner, as I don't know where one would find a control group of people that had not been contaminated by this indoctrination. However, I am not a trained social scientist - perhaps a clever one could. I suspect, based simply on the anecdotal evidence of my personal observations, that it would be far greater than any of us suspect. Should we ever learn to shed this burden of shame in what we are, and derive a practical ethical system based upon the reunion of the physical and the spiritual that Plato clove in twain, and one which understands that the desires and impulses the Creator endowed us with are there for perfectly legitimate and wholesome reasons, we would soon find our culture a more healthy one in which to live.


 
Re: God And NotGod

I cannot understand, in _any_ of my reflective modes, why a serious chunk of our world population, would continue to live under the tyranny of "original sin". If "God" made man with such an integral flaw then he goofed. If he goofed then he is not perfect. Therefore, he is not "God". It's that simple for me - that's as pithy as I can make it.

I am not a God - but I am a mother. Would I build in a weakness or flaw to one of my children? Of course not - that'd be ... um ... silly. And it would be something much more insidious than "silly" were I to have done so in order to control that child.

We should be _so_ past the time when hordes of people can be opiated with religion or are still unwilling to be self responsible enough to own themselves.

Religion, belief in a "God" ... I will not outlive it, unfortunately. Nor will anyone reading this. It will outlive us all by a few generations yet - but like the Greek and Roman (et al) gods, I am certain it will go the way of a historical footnote.

And then - and only then - can we achieve our potential as a race of beings. This is my strongest personal belief. I believe religion to be the most dangerous thing that has ever been invented.

Well ... um .... back to planting pentagrams in the garden for me. Ahem.

CJ

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Re: God And NotGod

it is one thing to see a nubile young thing and appreciate her gifts for what they are; desiring them for oneself is an entirely different matter, and the difference between the two is a very fine line.

where the line is in fact drawn is not so cut and dry, but it is certainly not the act of _seeing_ the human form; it is the concious decision that seeing it isn't enough. the desire that comes from all of us healthy, red-blooded manly-men who let the appreciation take our minds captive; when it becomes a lust for what is not ours.

I crossed that line when I wrote to you and asked about the origins of the thunder picture; my interest, as you know, did not end with my surprise at seeing it or the twinge of curiosity to know more.

I do not contest the beauty and grace and, yes, desirability, of the human form. I do not judge or condemn what one or many of those same forms do in the privacy of their own home, or even outside the home, except perhaps as it pertains to influencing my children.

I _do_ contest the notion that God is in us all, and I _do_ contest the notion that only a select few have dibs on Christianity or even the everafter. you seem to think I have you pegged as hellbound; I look at the non-Jesus freak and wonder how I might live my faith in such a way that it is an unmistakable reflection of the Creator's love for all humans.

the naked body, the really great jazz riff, the smooth finish of a really nice wine ... these are all wonderful things that God _made_. it is entirely appropriate to give them their due, to enjoy them for what they are, but not to the point of glorifying them over their Creator.

you are right to contend that temptation != sin. it is how we _respond_ to temptation. I can notice an attractive woman and let it go, or I can dwell on her attractiveness. that self-will is the gift of a Creator who chose not to have automatons as His creation; that is why at the same moment little palestinian children are taught to hate jews that a guy like todd beamer could get up out of his seat and rally a bunch of strangers to take back an airliner from a group of terrorists so other families wouldn't suffer like his ultimately would.

clearly we disagree, you and seajay and I, and I have no qualm with that. I have qualms with your notion of communion. it too has the potential to become nothing more than "the sound and fury of self-indulgence, signifying nothing."

... Link

Where is the NotGod?

Aaah macker, you scamp you, you're always reliable - your internal contradictions float through cyberspace with all the facile grace of a crippled giraffe swimming upstream a river of black molasses in winter, yet still you manage to dodge every point in my argument with the dexterity of Ali in his prime. :-)

I'd be writing for days dissecting everything you've said here, but I'll restrain myself to just a few points. First, let's talk about Pantheism. It seems to me that there are only a few possible stances:

A) The Creator, that is God, and his creation are two entirely separate, unrelated things.
B) A slight offshoot of this, that creation represents or reflects the mind of God, in the manner that a painting represents the artist. They are two separate, but related things.
C) God is present in everything, every part of creation. Pure Pantheism.
D) God is present in some of creation, but not all.

Now, while I think that there are arguments to be made for Both A & B, we will dismiss them, as they are stances that clearly cannot be held by a Xian. Jesus was part of creation, and he was, by definition, of God. Agreed? We will leave the arguments for C alone for now, as clearly, you have chosen D, based on this:

I _do_ contest the notion that God is in us all...

Here then, is my question to you. How can one look at Creation, and decide which parts of it are Good, that is, filled with God, and which parts of it are Bad, that is not part of God? Are there rules of thumb, signposts, clues? Can inanimate objects qualify as NotGod? Animals? Or only humans with the knowledge of Good and Evil?

Point the Second -

you seem to think I have you pegged as hellbound"

I cannot imagine you could see me as any other way. I don't believe that Jesus was anyone or anything other than a mortal Jewish rabbi that ran afoul of the established religious authorites of his time, and that 97% of what was written about him in the New Testament was made up from whole cloth by his disciples years after his death. I don't believe there's a god that cares one way or another about whether of not I follow the ten commandments. I don't think there is an afterlife where I will be rewarded or punished.

Now, you tell me how I cannot be "hellbound" if any of the things you believe to be true are in fact true.

I'll leave the other points alone until such time as we have beat these two horses to death.

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